How To Meme A Brand Into Existence | #REalAdvice 20 with The Broke Agent


Have you ever built an accidental niche audience?

That’s exactly where Eric Simon found himself, after starting The Broke Agent.

You may have heard of The Broke Agent. It was intended to be a joke account on Instagram, poking fun at the realities of life as a real estate agent. As more and more people discovered it, laughed, and then followed, the account’s growth exploded, and now has more than 100,000 followers. 

But now what?

Eric and I talk about how he built his audience, and next steps for The Broke Agent - what can he do now to expand his offerings!

ou will be blown away by the income potential of a large audience, and what could be next for The Broke Agent.

Guest Introduction:

This episode’s guest on the #REalAdvice podcast is Eric Simon, founder and CEO of The Broke Agent, a comedic media brand focused on the entertainment of real estate professionals covering the internal monologue of a struggling real estate agent. Eric has grown The Broke Agent over 300,000 followers across multiple platforms, and in the spring of 2019, he released the first ever real estate comic book called Commission Impossible: Rogue Agent, which was illustrated by the Broke Agent himself.

Highlights of this episode: 

  • Jonathan introduces The Broke Agent.

  • Eric shares how he grew The Broke Agent Instagram account: he would spend a lot of time engaging on similar accounts, and connecting with others who also worked in the same industry.

  • Don’t buy followers or engagement: that doesn’t work!

  • Eric connected with others by sending them messages asking “what can I do for you?”

  • Eric shares his long term goals and vision for The Broke Agent.

  • The Broke Agent is on many social media platforms, but Instagram is their most potent one right now!

  • Use current trends and events to connect with people: for example, connect with achievers through the #5club hashtag!

  • Instagram stories can push people to your feed and help build engagement.

  • Learn your engagement stats: know when people are online and engaging with you, and know when you should be posting content for best results.

  • Be strategic: why run ads when you can get engagement for free?

  • Mistakes happen: learn from them! Eric shares his experiences trying to get “verified” on Instagram and get that blue checkmark.

  • When you have a large audience and following, you can monetize what you’re doing by reshaping and refining what you already have!

  • We talk about transitioning an audience and continuing to offer both free and paid content without alienating the current audience.

  • If Eric could talk to one person, dead or alive, he would talk to Derek Jeter, because Derek was his childhood hero. 

Special shout out to The Broke Agent for being this episode’s guest for #REalAdvice! You can connect with him here:

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Audio Version Below!

Hello, World!

Full Transcript

Jonathan: 00:00 That person is 10 times more likely to actually continue to work with your dental office and transfer their insurance program to your dentist. Why? Because you have them in your chair. It's an easier sell to get them as a customer. That is called splintering. It's happened to me yesterday. You just got splintered. I got splintered hard. You literally have the splinter in your skin.

Eric: 00:21 It's by a huge piece of wood is what happened to me. Let's see, let's see it. I was in the dentist office getting my teeth.

Jonathan: 00:27 What's up everyone? Today we have Eric Simon, founder and

Jonathan: 00:30 CEO of the broke agent, which is a comedic media brand focused on the entertainment of real estate professionals. And in the spring of 2019 he released the first ever [inaudible]

Jonathan: 00:39 a comic book called Commission impossible rogue agent. And ask you, where did the inspiration of writing a book actually come from?

Eric: 00:50 I had to come up with a product that was perfect for my audience. That's how the inspiration came from. And also I, uh, I, Eric Lee was drawing sarcastic real estate comics on Instagram. So he messaged me and I figured it'd be a good synergy.

Jonathan: 01:04 So taking it a step back, where did the concept of the broker agent come from then?

Eric: 01:10 The broke agent started about four years ago. Uh, my friend and former partner West Pinkston wanted to hire me for a marketing project for a agent website basically. And I said, let's do a funny blog. He said, let's call it the broke agent. We went home, downloaded the Instagram handle Facebook handle Twitter handle to start tweeting, got a lot of traction early and that's pretty much where the concept came from. And then once we saw the feedback was really good, just kept running with it.

Jonathan: 01:38 And as far as growing the actual brand, obviously you didn't just come out in one day and say the broke agent, uh, you know, follow us like our page. Like how did you get that word out there? How did you start following or getting people to follow those accounts?

Eric: 01:54 Uh, we liked hundreds of thousands of photos. This is back when the Instagram algorithm wasn't destroying everything or making it difficult to get a bunch of followers. So we were liking a ton of photos. We were following people and because we had a catchy name, the broke agent, when we liked their photo, they would check out our profile, see that we were one of the first, if not the first real estate kind of mean funny page and because the name was catchy they would follow us back.

Jonathan: 02:19 So you said that that the algorithm is different than it was a few years ago. What would you say as a piece of advice to somebody that's listening right now on a, you know this guy has been able to grow his followers to x amount of numbers, but he's saying the algorithm is different. What would be a piece of advice or maybe something that you're currently doing to, to take advantage of that?

Eric: 02:39 I'm commenting on a ton of photos right now of,

Jonathan: 02:42 and are you doing that or is a Bot doing it?

Eric: 02:44 I'm doing it. Okay. I don't have a Bot. I don't know how to operate that.

Jonathan: 02:47 There's a lot of people with these bots and you'll see them do like a thumbs up on somebody that just died. And like that was a bot. Yes. I don't do bots. It's

Eric: 02:56 basically I comment something funny or sarcastic on like Tom Post and million dollar listing post. Anything that's relevant to the real estate community. I try to comment on all the big accounts. So I do that at least five or six times a day. I do, you know, 28 30 hashtags proposed, which gets the words out there. You have to keep switching those up. I'm sure you know, you're the Hashtag agent, right? So there you go. Um, I, I don't, I don't really like photos as much, but yeah, I think commenting right now has been the most effective for me. But when I was first starting out, I would do the follow, I would do the unfollow, um, pretty much all the Instagram growth hacking. But it does work to get your Instagram off the ground. But really it's the, the content. And then also I do engagement groups. So I'm a part of, um, a couple engagement groups with kind of like minded individuals in different industries. So there's an account called attorney problems. There's account called stupid resumes. They're basically just disgruntled employees, um, in their specific industry. And then we repost each other's stuff on stories or, you know, maybe once a week we'll repost it.

Jonathan: 03:56 So where are you, where were you? A disgruntled employee? And that's where this started. I am at this contract disgruntled agent. There's a lot of us, Andy percent of us, I would say. Okay. And um, so for somebody listening to take what you just said, what you're recommending is go out and see who's an influencer in your space, who's doing something already and comments and engage with them, not just so that person can see, but also people in the comments would also see, is that where, is that what you're getting at?

Eric: 04:25 Yeah, if, I mean, I've discovered a lot of accounts just because that account is commenting on accounts that I follow. So if they're commenting something funny or something witty and they have an account that's attractive, like something that says, you know, the broke agent or something that stands out within the comments, I will go follow that account.

Jonathan: 04:42 And for a real estate agent that's listening, is this the same piece of advice that you would give? Would you give them something else on how to grow their followers? She has tons of people come to me, Jonathan, how do we grow our followers? And it's like, well first off, whatever you're paying for, stop because you've got 5 billion likes, no comments and something going crazy. I'm so stop doing that. First off, but what would be the next step on, you know, how to go from a hundred to a thousand, a thousand to 5,000, what would you say that person should be doing?

Eric: 05:12 Uh, I think the m ing, uh, larger Instagram accounts is always helpful by saying, Hey, what can I do for you? So for example, this Guy Jason Cassidy, who works at compass in San Diego, EDM me and said, hey, I see other big falling. Um, you just came out with a book. I'll give away 10 of my books on my page if you shout me out. So it was kind of a reciprocal thing like that. You could definitely do that. Dn bigger accounts. Also you could do mini engagement groups. So if you have a brokerage of 150 people, you could DM, you know, 10 of those agents and you can say, hey, you post my stuff, shout me out in your story if your reason to follow on basically.

Jonathan: 05:47 And so what would, what would you say is the vision if you have a vision of the broke agent and uh, you know, what does welcome to the being entrepreneur?

Eric: 05:58 You just gave me a bunch of ideas right now actually. So I mean the, the longterm vision is to build this out into an entire media entertainment brand slash company. Uh, we're, we're posting daily scripted funny videos, um, you know, like longer form, minute, minute and a half youtube videos that are scripted that are covering all the funny real estate scenarios. I mean, it's good to do means funny tweets, stuff like that, but it's really not capturing, uh, what I think this could become.

Jonathan: 06:24 And do you plan on staying in the real estate space forever or briefly? Asheville take me out of the real estate space. Okay. And into what space do you mean out of being a real estate agent? Got It, got it.

Eric: 06:37 Got It. Real estate media, I think there's a great opportunity for this because I don't think there's too many people covering the lighter side of real estate, if you will, which is my main competitor, the Facebook, uh, group and yeah, I think that the inner monologue of a struggling realtor and an unfiltered approach to covering ridiculous scenarios that happen on a daily basis in real estate. I think there's definitely an opportunity there. And I would like one more people to be submitting videos. I want this to be like a collaborative effort of people sending me stuff and posting stuff that's kinda similar to my content as well. So it's not just one person creating.

Jonathan: 07:13 So what would, what would be that next step in order to make,

Eric: 07:16 make that happen? Whether it's a youtube blog or something like that. I really should be attacking video and I should be putting these ideas to paper as opposed to just doing comic books or memes. I really think the longer form video would be a good idea, but I need actors. I don't know if I should be in the videos. I don't know. Actors should be in the [inaudible].

Jonathan: 07:34 Well, you can be in the video like, uh, what's the, unfortunately, I'm not saying you're going to die, but who's the guy that was on all the marvel videos? Stanley. There you go. You can meet the traded marvel. You can be the to him. You can be the, you can be like him where you're in the video, but you're not like the full on actor. But the broke agent is always in there.

Eric: 07:53 Right. I don't know if the feedback could be that great on that. You wouldn't be the next Stanley. No, I don't know about that. I mean we did do a comic book, so maybe there you go. Real estate comp.

Jonathan: 08:02 There you go. Look, you're staying in the same kind of realm. So what other things do you have as far as products? You have the book

Eric: 08:09 because we got merchandise, we have coffee cups. Where do people find those? The brocade and pretty easy. Yeah, pretty easy. And they're supposed to generate leads as well. So it's a, it's a way to promote yourself without being an asshole about it by just saying Jeremy Real estate, a way to say am wearing a funny real estate shirt and maybe we'll get some leads at it.

Jonathan: 08:27 And so do you think more people need to infuse some of that humor and some of that a different aspect into their real estate business? Because you know, I tell people all the time like, Dude, you're not 24 seven like buyer, sell a house like smile on your face. Like you have good times, you have bad times, you have hilarious times, you have terrible times. The reason that they call you at 9:00 PM at night and you don't answer the phone, they think you're a terrible agent is because two weeks ago you just said, I work 24 seven three five you know,

Eric: 08:56 like I'm the best agent in the world, but that's not feasible. What do you think about that? Yeah, I think there's more people that are doing funny videos. This is a guy named David Phrygia that posts every single week. He does a funny open house video. There's all these real estate rap videos. Did you hear about that controversy? What'd you think about it? Um, I didn't really mind it. No, there was nothing wrong with it. I can't believe they apologize. They can't believe that the brokers brokers got rid of them real fast. I'm like, Huh. Got their brokers a lot of publicity. I mean it was a bad rap video I guess in the sense that it just wasn't fun to watch, but I don't see what it was making light of. I don't think they should have applied. I think people were assuming other things because e's agents were rapping. Right. I came out with two rap videos. The one I came out with in 2015 was heinous. Like slap a girl's bud. I say horrible words. Now you're the brocade you now I'm the brocade for that as well. Have you seen the rap video?

Speaker 4: 09:54 No. Fair that shit twice, but the third was the charm. I'm official now. Bitch. Time to donate. Can Farm profile page up on my company's site, got my business cards and signs in a suit that fits right. Paragraph description and you know that shit's tight about to pop out. These commissions broke a high as a kite.

Eric: 10:16 I'll probably have to take it down if that gets resurfaced off, that would be the answer. So what was, you said there was two? What was the second one? About a, the second line was about, yeah, you know how to go with that girl last night. Yeah man. We been out for like three hours. Kind of felt like I was back as a freshman in high school anyway. I gotta go, I gotta Shit. That same open house. The same one? Yeah. The one where the seller's always there. I talked to you later. Knocked back. He has to sell it. How do you do what a beautiful day, man. This guy is so blue. Basically just like a overbearing seller and it's a conversational rap. I do Instagram stories. I just started the 4:00 AM club at 10:00 AM I saw that, which was hilarious. Yeah. Where it makes fun of kind of the Tom Ferry [inaudible] 5:00 AM club, get up early, get on a conference call and get, no, not even his concept.

Eric: 11:07 I know it's not, but, and now it's kind of funny because now it's spread to multiple regions. So now you have entrepreneurs doing that. 5:00 AM west coast, 5:00 AM east coast, 5:00 AM central and 5:00 AM like international. And now it's infuriating and I'm just want to show how early they get up. There we go. The 4:00 AM club. Uh, what were we talking about? Instagram stories. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Um, anything that you'd like to use? Well, I've been posting my content to Instagram stories to get more engagement on my content. You know how you can do a direct link up to your story. So that's really been, yes. So explain to somebody that listening that doesn't know what that means or how that works. So on your Instagram feed, you can type in where you click the little arrow on the far right and then you could upload that to your story as if you were deeming it to someone, but you upload it to your story and then you can do here. So what I'll do is I won't reveal the entire caption or the entire post and then if they're just clicking through their stories, then they will check out my feet and it gets the, the posts like, I don't know, probably 10% more engagement or something.

Jonathan: 12:04 And Are you putting any hashtags or tags within that and then hiding this? Yes. Okay.

Eric: 12:09 Um, I just started doing that. I'm trying to do like three hashtags proposed on the, uh, on the stories. But that's,

Jonathan: 12:16 do you monitor your, your insights on Instagram? I checked that follows in the demographics, but as far as, I don't monitor it like hourly, hourly, but like maybe once a week. Like to see like what the best piece of content was or, and what do you do with those, those numbers? Just look at them and smile [inaudible]

Eric: 12:36 at the engagement. No, I I noticed that the videos do a lot better than the regular posts. Um, I noticed the timing, uh, weekday, Saturday posts are always terrible and

Jonathan: 12:47 which is kind of funny because most people would assume like Saturday, like weekends, more people, more free time.

Eric: 12:52 Right. I would think that as well. Maybe just because people are constantly on their phone during work or during the weekends.

Jonathan: 12:58 It's kind of funny like that this is on a different tangent, but then people that are listening that are posting on linkedin right now that are posting during the day, they actually don't get that much engagement. But if you post between the hours of 12 and two, like 12 midnight and two in the morning, you get the most engagement. Why? That's when most people are looking for a job on linkedin. Makes Sense. So that's actually when they get the most engagement. 60% of the linkedin community engaged is between 12 and two. Wow. Which is like drastic and that's the highest engagement rates across any platform. Are you on Linkedin? I am on Linkedin. You Post content on linkedin. We do post constantly. Linkedin. I start doing that. You should definitely start doing that. Okay. Because not only can you do that, but if you have a company page, what they call it, we just use that as our public figure page, which is what we just transitioned over into.

Jonathan: 13:44 It's similar to Facebook. You have your your profile and then you have your page, so you're, what you make on Linkedin is your profile, but you can create a company page and the reason that you want to do that is because you can run ads and you can target brokerages. You can target specific agents. I can target like a specific building their employees. I can target like the fourth floor of this 34 building. Like it's like crazy how in depth you can get with the actual demographics that you're allowed to use. I know with within real estate and fair housing, there's things that you can or cannot do. I guess if you're marketing to agents, it's kind of free game. Is that really how it, I dunno, I do Facebook ads daily. I've never been hit with anything. Yeah. I think it's, there's nothing actually with Facebook just changed their uh, uh, their platform. And in two weeks they're getting rid of the ad sets but they just changed their platform where now if you're running an ad that is, has to do with real estate at the very top, you have to click the housing button and then you're allowed to run your ad. If you don't click the housing button, they can, you can get a fair housing violation. Okay, got it. Good to know. So anybody listening or there too many platforms to be

Eric: 14:52 on? I mean if I, if I do linkedin too, I feel like that's just too much. I don't, I don't know if because I mean [inaudible]

Jonathan: 14:58 so that's a great question. We just finished up our Beta for the Hashtag agent academy and what we tracked is how can we increase organic engagement? Cause a lot of people come to me, we want to run ads and do all these things and said, well what if we could do it for free? Well that sounds great, but we don't know how to do that. What we've found is if you can have five platforms with five pieces of information that are the exact same name, email, phone number, a website URL, and address, you'll get a four times organic engagement boost all across all of your platforms just because you have that. Okay. And, and you'll know that your platforms optimize, I'll show you after, but you'll know your platforms optimize when you go onto Google and you look at your Google my business profile, which you should have, you'll actually Google will actually start recommending your youtube, your Linkedin, your Facebook directly on the my Google page.

Jonathan: 15:55 And the only reason that they do that is because you have information that is the exact same. So they know that's the exact same person. So to answer your question, yes you should do it. However, you should not focus on growing linkedin to a billion users. You should just have it just for the pure aspect of Google. We'll pull that and it'll actually give me more val validity. I'm gonna say validated [inaudible] validity and credibility on Instagram because they'll know that you're also on another platform. So it actually builds the trust value, which is the second component of the algorithm.

Eric: 16:26 Wow. So I could get verified by this is what you're saying. You can. You can. That's it. That's the culture. Chasse asked me earlier what the goal is. I think it's just verified. Get that blue check mark. So what press articles are you on? Any, any real estate media company I think has written something. I think that I'm on it and then I'm on, I think I've been on the real deal like a couple of major ones. So I've submitted those. Okay. I've done everything I can. I've gotten scammed like three times by Instagram verification people like an idiot you should pay to play. You want to name any of them yet? The scammers? Yes. Yeah. I can tell you a couple stories about that. We will love it. We will love those. Exposes me for being an idiot. But

Jonathan: 17:08 well we've all done that. We've all bought something thinking it's going to get, get us there faster. No, but

Eric: 17:13 have you ever [inaudible] have you ever known you're being scammed but still just went through through with it just because you're like, well maybe I will actually work out. Okay, so I got, I got an email from the oracle which is already, this is going to be bad. And this guy's like, dude, I get a bunch of rappers verified. I got two Kashi, six and nine verified. I got all these people. And I was like, dude, you're full of shit. Like I know you didn't. He calls me, I'll talk to him for 45 minutes. I sounds like he knows what he's talking about. Like, yeah, just paypal me, you know, $500 and do PR for you. And you have this entire process with Facebook. And I was like, but why is there email the oracle and he's like, oh, we're in a transition period.

Eric: 18:00 Sends me his website. The website is also in a transition. That's all I know. I know what's happening. Right. And so he emails or I email him and say, hey, like I need protection with us. Like I need a guarantee that you're going to pay me back if it's like, cause I'll get you verified in two weeks, in two weeks, should even tell the story you should. It's great. It can be look like a complete moron. This happened twice to me to a couple of weeks afterwards. Same amount of money now. Okay. I'll tell you the other day. It'll be more, the other one's even worse.

Eric: 18:31 Um, so he calls me, he calls me like every other day to update me about these PR opportunities to follow up. He's like, dude, I got you an email or I got you an interview with Entrepreneur magazine and I was like, no, you did it. I got you an email with I got you an email with fights. He said this new vice TV channel wanting to have me on and I knew this wasn't true, but he's like, here's the Instagram account. The Instagram account is some marijuana account. Basically that was just created because I kept reaching out to him being like, where's the verification? It's been more than two weeks. So eventually blocked my number. It doesn't respond to any of my emails. And I realized that obviously I got scammed officially. So then I, uh, request the money back on paypal and paypal actually paid me back, so no harm done.

Eric: 19:17 So then you're good sides feeling like an idiot and lost a lot of time. Two weeks later I'm on the Kwons Instagram, you know who to call on us, you know, luckily he's a funny just meet page [inaudible] yeah. And then a, there's a verified account could email and five, I'm a huge college basketball fan. I know that kid email and played point guard for University of Arizona 2012 to 2016. I'm like, why is Khadim Alan five commenting on account saying if you need a verification badge, DME. And I knew this was a scam tube. I just wanted to, I wanted to hear it for myself. So Id, I'm the guy and I'm like, Hey Khadim um, they're selling verification badges. He was like, yeah, it's just $75 and you'll get verified in two hours. I'm like, Holy Shit, two hours. That's incredible. And I'm like, no chance. So like can you verify me first?

Eric: 20:08 He's like, no, you got to send the money first. And I sent them money and I didn't get verified and then he blocked me. So that's, that's what I, that's what happened to me and I, I knew like the account was the account of this basketball player. I think you got drafted by the Celtics actually. So I mean these are two of the dumbest things I've ever done. This is not how I operate my business by the way. I have a question. Yeah, great. If you were the CEO, founder of the brokerage, yeah. You had these followers and you had this platform, I'd be making a lot of money. Yes, I would. Okay, so what's the question? Yeah. What would you be doing? What would the first move he for

Jonathan: 20:47 you? Great question. The first one that I always ask in any business is I always ask our current members what they want because any business is built on you solving a problem for somebody else. So I would pull my current audience, I would pull, if you have groups, if you just have polls on Instagram, whatever it may be, I would ask them, you know, we've came out with this book, we have some merchandise. Thank you so much for, you know, for those that have bought, uh, we, you know, we're, we're appreciative of the engagement and whatnot, but we want to help you more. We want to do more. We think that we could take this, you know, brand to a bigger scale. What is it that you would want? Or how do you envision us growing? And you would see like, what do they think?

Jonathan: 21:33 They're like, oh yeah, you're great if you start a wine club, okay, well if you've got like a thousand people, then we would start a wine club. But if they're like, you know, hey, you know, it'd be great if you come out with book two or do something then whatever, whatever it is that they say, you would then tell them, are you willing to put your credit card on file? So then that way when we create it, we can charge it. Well the moment that they say no, they actually probably wouldn't have bought that. So what I would do to monetize what you currently have is take what you currently have and reshape and refocus exactly what we're selling. Because like I told you earlier, this, this book has 47 chapters. That's 40 different guide, 47 different guides, 47 different posts, 47 different email newsletters, 47 different shirts that can, you know, this is the headshot shirt.

Jonathan: 22:23 This is, there's tons of different things that you can come from this one thing. But, uh, like I said, I would really ask what people want because they'll tell you what they want, whether it's good or bad, they'll tell you what they want. So when we built the Hashtag agent, uh, we didn't have one piece of content already filmed, we didn't have one download, one resource, one anything. Uh, however we were able to get 1200 people into a group where they would then tell us this is what we want. And guess what? That's what we gave them. And during that process they'll say, we also want this or we've gone through this but we need more help. Or could we have an event or could we hire you to come speak to our team? Could we hire you to come speak at our event? And it just, we do what the people want because a lot of people start businesses assuming that if I start it, they'll buy. If I create this massive course, then all these people are going to buy it. Well that's drastically opposite of what should happen. You should say, what would you want in a course? Then go and create that course and then solid. You were thinking there for a second and maybe I just talk, I just talk.

Eric: 23:29 That was all very nice. Like a big aspect of the broke agent brand is that I'm not like everybody else in a sense that I'm not constantly pushing courses. I'm not selling stuff to them. So my, my fear is that when I start that transition, if I start that, that I'll start alienate the audience. They'd be like, dude, I just want your funny content. I don't want to buy a course from you because I'm not going to do a real estate course. It would just be like an Instagram growth hacking course or something like that. Um, so that's kind of my fear. Whenever I post something, even if it's merchandise, even if it's on brand, is a real estate funny comic book. That's why this was created. I was like, w what does the audience want? They want more content. They want more funny. They want to laugh. They want something that could hold in their hand. It's like coffee table books, something to read it at that open house inspection or whatever the case may be created. That product did okay, but the results weren't necessarily what I was looking for. I was looking for a little bit more

Jonathan: 24:25 validation. Yeah. Yeah. So Ryan Deiss of digital marketer went through a course with me that we're putting together, which is called seven conversion hacks to triple your business. Okay. And our goal is if we can't triple your business, the worst case scenario, which would be option B is we double your business. You know, if we go we are going to double your business and then you don't double your business. It's like you didn't succeed. If you go to triple and then you only double. It's like, okay, I'll take that. Um, but the, the, you know, to answer your question is, you know, if I start going into courses and modules and stuff and people don't want to buy it, then I'm kind of screwed. Well we actually never promote like bigger products for sale. Okay. We always do, what I was telling you is we splinter micro content, micro content and we allow them to get as far as they want. Meaning if they only want to stay in that free bucket, there actually never pitched a specific product. So if they only want to stay in the newsletter, that's free. Great. Do you want to opt into the $7, um, you know, four chapters that we're going to give you? Great. If you want to go from there to the book, Great. Do you want to go from the book to a bigger course on how we, how you can write your own book? Great. We can do that. So, you know, one, one good example of splintering is,

Eric: 25:40 um,

Jonathan: 25:41 I'll give you two good examples. One is a guitar. Let's say you have a somebody that sells guitars, okay? It would be terrible for that person to actually go out somewhere and say, we have guitars for sale. They're not going to sell that many guitars. However, if they went out and say we're selling a hundred pack of guitar picks for nine 99, you would get a lot of people buying it. Well guess what? People who buy guitar picks also buy guitars. So you have now a customer that's sitting in your it right there in front of you that you can easily upsell. It's like if a dentist offers teeth whitening at cost, like at cost, I don't make a penny teeth whitening. Well guess what? You now have a customer sitting in your chair, in your dentist office, you're doing the teeth whitening. That person is 10 times more likely to actually continue to work with your dental office and transfer their insurance program to your dentist.

Jonathan: 26:37 Why? Because you have them in your chair. It's an easier sell to get them as a customer. That is called splintering. [inaudible] happened to me yesterday. You just got splintered. I got splintered hard. You literally have to splint to get your scabbed by a huge piece of wood is what happened to me. Let's see, let's see it. I was in the dentist office getting my teeth cleaned. Look at this example that I gave. This was awesome. Like you were watching me or something. Woo. Maybe I was and they upsell me as $6,500 gum surgery, which I need because my gum line is receding cause I've been brushing like a lunatic for 15 straight years and I've noticed this. My gums always sore, my teeth are exposed and I took it. Bam. $6,500 right there. You know how many, you know how many books that is? Yeah, that's sweet.

Jonathan: 27:23 That is called a product splinter. Wow. So they just splintered me. They literally upscaled me while I was locked to a chair. What are you going having my teeth? You're, you're 10 times more likely to go to the upsell. Oh. And then I bought Invisalign also. It's crazy. I don't actually, I haven't, it doesn't align and that's exactly how they got me as well. Yeah. Work. Yeah. I just took them off. So that went a little bit. That'd be, but no, it's great. Like this tooth, my wisdom tooth started pushing and this and that and modern dentistry in Huntington beach. Shout out to them. Phenomenal dentists. And they also do teeth whitening for free. Ooh. Damn. Why you winking at me? Why you teeth whitening? No, no, but I'm saying that's a splinter. That's how they got me into freaking Invisalign. Cause you come up with the term splinter or is this something that's like a marketing term.

Jonathan: 28:10 Okay. Yeah, it's a, it's also called like a trip wire. Okay. Have you heard of triple? I've heard of click funnels and upsells. Yeah, click. We'll click funnels as an actual program us. I thought that was a term for Melik funnels, like click funnels is a software provider that does these different things. So let me give you the last example, and this is a really cool one too. For somebody that wants to sell candles, okay. Oh candles, open house candles. Genius. Okay, right there. That's an idea. Damn. Every time you walk into an open house and it smells good because of a candle, everybody comments on it. We sell candles subscriptions to agents that have different smells. Even better, even better. We allow you to make your own candle. And let me, let me, let me show you how this works. The number one candle manufacturer in the United States, they used to sell candles.

Jonathan: 29:03 They no longer sell candles. They sell pieces of a candle for you to make a candle. So the number one thing that you're going to need with a candle is what? A lighter, you're going to need a wick in order to make a candle. So what this person did is rather than selling the candles to people that want to make their own candles, we're going to sell them a wick so you can buy a wick for a dollar. Okay, well, what's the next progression that they're going to do? I need the first one now, so I need to, I need to get wax, then I need to get die. Then I need to get a case to wrap it in. So they splintered those things off and sane, but while they're going through it, there's another, another, um, marketing term, which is called the accelerated offer.

Jonathan: 29:51 You just bought, bop the wick to make your own candle. Great. We have the wax where you can buy it or you could just buy the candle from us. Well, guess what? Most of those people will just buy the candle. Plus they already bought the splinter, but they would have never have just bought the candle because they had this grand vision that they were going to build it themselves. Well, once they get into it and they're like, man, it's gonna take a long time. I don't know. And we're literally talking about candles as a brocade and we're talking about candles, but that's how a splinter works. Okay? And that's how any great marketer will sell something. They will never sell their, what we would call their core product. You would never sell that. You would so a splintered of the core product because the core product is actually your mid tier product.

Jonathan: 30:36 Most people like to say their core product is like this high tiered price or this high ticket item that's actually not your, that's not your core product. Your core products should be between 50 to $200 and it should have a lower in $7 to $20 and then it can have in hiring 5,000 to $20,000 that's the actual, what can I sell for $25,000 a? It's houses that has this. You can do a lot of things for $25,000 you can buy a $5,000 cruise with me and go to The Bahamas. We're doing Bahamas trip in February to the cruise already. Yeah, it's $5,000 right? Bams. I mean you've got 6,500 to drop on the gums. You've got $5,000 to show them off payment plan. I splintered my own payment plan. [inaudible]

Jonathan: 31:24 um, okay, so let's, let's wrap up here. One person dead or alive. If they were to walk into the office and sit with you for an hour, you can talk about anything. You can do anything. Who would the person be and why? Probably Derek Jeter because he was my hero growing up. The ultimate clutch gene and just not for them, just not for Miami, but he's trying to turn it around there. Are you a sports fan? I am a die hard sports fan. But what are your teams? My teams are the cowboys, the angels and the Lakers. Okay, got it. Yeah. What do you think about Zeke? He's going to sign. Oh yeah. I mean he's, he's in Cabo right now just living it up. But Jerry Jones came out and said, you know, you're not going to push him over. I mean he's got the highest value. Yeah. What did, what did he say that he said you don't need a, you don't need a whatever to win a championship. Yes you do. Yeah, you do Emmett Smith, you totally wasn't, well, every single Superbowl has come from a leading rusher with the cowboys at least. So they're going to have to figure it out because uh, Miquel Thompson just signed his hundred million dollar deal and he is a wide receiver with the new saints, but

Eric: 32:40 he's in the same class as I like to say. Like you were talking about some obscure cowboy that I haven't heard of. No, no, this is the saint. So yeah, he's gonna. He'll, he'll get paid. I think he'll get paid. We don't want to have the levy on bell scenario happened to us. He's going to get paid somewhere so we might as well pay him. We need them. Where can people find you? Where can people connect with you? Where can people buy your stuff? I was looking forward to talking a little bit more sports, but you can jump right into my, that doesn't mean that we have to end it. You could find me at the broke agent on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, formerly snapchat. I never use that anymore. His Instagram story destroyed it. Do you snapchat? I do not. I use Instagram stories. Uh, the broke and if you want to buy some of these shitty shirts, uh, the brokage and do you want to buy great book? Do you have the broke I do, but you don't use that and now I do. It was a blog that I was using and now I'm trying to switch that into like the home hub for everything so we can help you with that to help me with that. How much am I going to have to pay for this coaching problem? I mean, it's going to cost you probably 20% equity in the brocade, whatever.

Speaker 5: 33:56 Hey everybody, this is Jonathan Hawkins. Thank you so much for staying until the very end of this podcast. I definitely appreciate it. As always, make sure to reach out to me via social media at Jonathan Hawkins official. Send me a comment, shoot me a DM. If you have any questions, you can also comment below. Thank you so much. Don't forget to subscribe below and remember who you hire truly matters.